In the earlier post I said:
"The reason this is very significant is because dino to bird enthusiasts have never offered any creatures (any taxa) as the actual ancestor of modern birds. If Senter had put modern birds on the scatterplot he would have faced that issue. But he did not face up to it.".
The idea that "dino to bird enthusiasts have never offered any creatures (any taxa) as the actual ancestor of modern birds" may have come as a surprise to some people. But that is a simple uncontested fact.
Here is a reference to that fact:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_paradox_%28paleontology%29
"First, no one has proposed that maniraptoran dinosaurs of the Cretaceous are the ancestors of birds. They have merely found that dinosaurs like dromaeosaurs, troodontids and oviraptorosaurs are close relatives of birds. "
It is not my intention to enter into an analysis here about cladistic analysis.
But what is relevant is the following:
We saw how the dino to bird idea does not stand up to the fact that the line would have to wander and backtrack all over the place from one unconnected group to another.
But the situation is actually worse than that (if such a thing is conceivable).
Evolutionists are not even saying that any of those groups actually evolved into any others of those groups. They are saying that there is a separate line of unfound fossils of different creatures that winds its way from dinosaurs to birds.
Thankfully that is not a part of the thinking I am presenting.
"They have merely found that dinosaurs like dromaeosaurs, troodontids and oviraptorosaurs are close relatives of birds."
ReplyDeleteThen what is the Paravia? Paraves are dinosaurs including avialans and deinonychosaurs. So the common ancestor of deinonychosaurs and birds was the first paravian. Simple. The most basal avialans are scansoriopterygids and archaeopterygids.
I do not know what Paravia is. I looked it up on wikipedia and google but that did not help. What do you mean by "Paravia"?
ReplyDeleteThe wikipedia entry is based on the incorrect idea that maniraptors are dinosaurs.
ReplyDeleteThe quote should actually read:
They have merely found that maniraptors like dromaeosaurs, troodontids and oviraptorosaurs are close relatives of birds.
And in fact they are not simply relatives but ancestors of different modern bird orders.
I meant Paraves, not Paravia, sorry for the confusion.
ReplyDeleteActually, Paraves is a clade suggesting that birds and deinonychosaurs shared a common ancestor, therefore making birds and deinonychosaurs each other's closest relatives.
You don't get it, okay, MANIRAPTORANS ARE THEROPOD DINOSAURS, they are not pterosaurs 100% without a doubt. No material has ever disproven this claim and no material ever will.
I will use cladistics to disprove you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniraptora#Classification
The most basal maniraptors/maniraptoriformes are ornitholestines (they may just be basal coelurosaurs), then therizinosaurs and alvarezsaurs. Then, there's a group called the Aviremigia. Aviremigia consists of oviraptorosaurs, deinonychosaurus and avialans. To narrow down further, deinonychosaurs and avialans are united in the group of Paraves.
So, the closest relatives to birds are:
* deinonychosaurs
* oviraptorosaurs
* alvarezsauroids
* therizinosaurs
* ornitholestines
* ornithomimosaurs
* tyrannosauroids
* compsognathids
* carnosaurs
* megalosauroids
In the order from most closely related to least closely related.
Hello Taylor.
ReplyDeleteYou have posted:
"You don't get it, okay, MANIRAPTORANS ARE THEROPOD DINOSAURS, they are not pterosaurs 100% without a doubt. No material has ever disproven this claim and no material ever will."
I understand that is your thinking. But you are simply asserting it. I am showing in this blog that the evidence shows that birds developed from pterosaurs. If you want to disagree, you will have to deal with the evidence. And not simply count on the acceptance of your assertion.
I am delighted to discuss the evidence with you.
Please refer to any post of mine that you disagree with and explain with evidence why you disagree.
Gimme your evidence... I'd love to see any.
ReplyDeleteBut wait... birds have feathers and that's a unique character to Maniraptoriformes. That's what you think.
You know feathers have been found outside of the Maniraptoriformes, though, right?
The first feathers of a dinosaur were actually found in the basal coelurosaur compsognathid Sinosauropteryx.
Taylor, the evidence is found on the posts of this blog.
ReplyDeleteIf you use the search function on this site you will see references to Sinosauropteryx.
ReplyDeleteThe search function is on the right side of every page.