Here is an introduction to the flamingo lineage:
A preliminary, possible lineage:
Pterosaur (Ctenochasmatidae) Pterodaustro --> Primitive bird, Palaelodidae (Phoenicopteriformes)
--> Flamingo (Phoenicopteriformes)
Pterosaur (Ctenochasmatidae) Pterodaustro --> Primitive bird, Palaelodidae (Phoenicopteriformes)
--> Flamingo (Phoenicopteriformes)
See this earlier post on the flamingo pterosaur:
http://pterosaurnet.blogspot.com/2010/05/flamingo.html
http://pterosaurnet.blogspot.com/2010/05/flamingo.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterodaustro
Pterodaustro is a genus of Cretaceous pterodactyloid pterosaur [Ctenochasmatidae] from South America, which lived 105 million years ago.
Pterodaustro is a genus of Cretaceous pterodactyloid pterosaur [Ctenochasmatidae] from South America, which lived 105 million years ago.
http://dinosaurs.about.com/od/aviandinosaurs3/p/pterodaustro.htm
The modern bird that's most often compared to the South American Pterodaustro is the flamingo, which this pterosaur closely resembled in appearance, if not in every aspect of its anatomy. Based on its thousand or so distinctive, bristlelike teeth, paleontologists believe that the early Cretaceous Pterodaustro dipped its curved beak into the water to filter out plankton, small crustaceans, and other tiny aquatic creatures. Since shrimp and plankton are predominantly pink, some of these scientists also speculate that Pterodaustro may have had a distinctly pinkish hue, another trait it would have shared with modern flamingos.
The modern bird that's most often compared to the South American Pterodaustro is the flamingo, which this pterosaur closely resembled in appearance, if not in every aspect of its anatomy. Based on its thousand or so distinctive, bristlelike teeth, paleontologists believe that the early Cretaceous Pterodaustro dipped its curved beak into the water to filter out plankton, small crustaceans, and other tiny aquatic creatures. Since shrimp and plankton are predominantly pink, some of these scientists also speculate that Pterodaustro may have had a distinctly pinkish hue, another trait it would have shared with modern flamingos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterodaustro
Pterodaustro probably waded in shallow water like flamingos, straining food with its tooth comb, a method called "filter feeding".[4] Once it caught its food, Pterodaustro probably mashed it with the small, globular teeth present in its upper jaw.
According to Robert Bakker, like with flamingos, this pterosaur's diet may have resulted in a pink hue. Thus, it is often dubbed the "flamingo pterosaur".[5]
Pterodaustro probably waded in shallow water like flamingos, straining food with its tooth comb, a method called "filter feeding".[4] Once it caught its food, Pterodaustro probably mashed it with the small, globular teeth present in its upper jaw.
According to Robert Bakker, like with flamingos, this pterosaur's diet may have resulted in a pink hue. Thus, it is often dubbed the "flamingo pterosaur".[5]
http://pterodata.blogspot.com/2009/06/very-peculiar-pterosaur.html
"Pterodaustro is represented by a number of specimens from Argentina. There is a complete skeleton, a partial juvenile and an egg, just to mention a few. This unusual pterosaur is quite well represented in the fossil record, certainly enough is known to make a convincing reconstruction.
Most unusually, this was a filter feeder with a fine sieve of unusually adapted teeth that would have been ideal for filter feeding on small aquatic living organisms. This was the Flamingo of the ancient world!
It is also the first pterosaur where gizzard stones have been observed to be present."
"Pterodaustro is represented by a number of specimens from Argentina. There is a complete skeleton, a partial juvenile and an egg, just to mention a few. This unusual pterosaur is quite well represented in the fossil record, certainly enough is known to make a convincing reconstruction.
Most unusually, this was a filter feeder with a fine sieve of unusually adapted teeth that would have been ideal for filter feeding on small aquatic living organisms. This was the Flamingo of the ancient world!
It is also the first pterosaur where gizzard stones have been observed to be present."
An extinct family of peculiar "swimming flamingos", the Palaelodidae, are believed to be related to, or to be THE ANCESTORS OF, the modern flamingos. This is sometimes rejected, since the fossil Elornis is known to be from some time before any palaelodid flamingos have been recorded.
"The Palaelodidae are a family of extinct birds in the order Phoenicopteriformes, which today is represented only by the flamingos.[1] They have been described as "swimming flamingos."
Three genera are recognised:
Adelalopus, called the "stout-legged flamingos" (Borgloon Early Oligocene of Hoogbutsel, Belgium)[2]
Palaelodus (Middle Oligocene -? Middle Pleistocene)
Megapaloelodus (Late Oligocene - Early Pliocene)"
"A wide variety of birds have been proposed as their closest relatives, on a wide variety of evidence. To reflect the uncertainty about this matter, flamingos are generally placed in their own order. [Phoenicopteriformes]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaelodus
"Palaelodus is an extinct genus of birds distantly related to flamingos. They were slender birds with long, thin legs and a long neck. Little is known about the shape of their skull or beak. Some paleontologists think Palaelodus was able to swim under water, chasing prey, but the morphology of their feet seems not very well adapted for diving. Rather, it is more likely that they were adapted to browsing for food while swimming or standing in shallow water.
The family, Palaelodidae, is the sister taxon of modern flamingos, and the order Phoenicopteriformes, to which both belong, probably evolved from a grebe-like ancestor. It is easy to see how a bird like Palaelodus represents an intermediate form between a diving, fish-eating grebe and a wading, invertebrate-filtering flamingo. This does not mean that the palaelodids are the ancestors of the flamingos. Rather, they were a sister group that remained in the ecological niche of their common ancestor."
Since cladistics does not recognize ANCESTORS, it really means nothing to say that they "probably evolved from a grebe-like ancestor" or that "they were a sister group". Cladistics always says something like that. That tells us nothing.
Palaelodids may well have been the ancestors of the flamingos. Anything cladistics says on that question is irrelevant.
"Palaelodus is an extinct genus of birds distantly related to flamingos. They were slender birds with long, thin legs and a long neck. Little is known about the shape of their skull or beak. Some paleontologists think Palaelodus was able to swim under water, chasing prey, but the morphology of their feet seems not very well adapted for diving. Rather, it is more likely that they were adapted to browsing for food while swimming or standing in shallow water.
The family, Palaelodidae, is the sister taxon of modern flamingos, and the order Phoenicopteriformes, to which both belong, probably evolved from a grebe-like ancestor. It is easy to see how a bird like Palaelodus represents an intermediate form between a diving, fish-eating grebe and a wading, invertebrate-filtering flamingo. This does not mean that the palaelodids are the ancestors of the flamingos. Rather, they were a sister group that remained in the ecological niche of their common ancestor."
Since cladistics does not recognize ANCESTORS, it really means nothing to say that they "probably evolved from a grebe-like ancestor" or that "they were a sister group". Cladistics always says something like that. That tells us nothing.
Palaelodids may well have been the ancestors of the flamingos. Anything cladistics says on that question is irrelevant.
It is one of the parallel lines I talk about.
No we don't. You've still provided no information that leads us to believe that flamingoes evolved all their bird characters independently from all other birds. Your conclusion does not follow from your wiki-quotes.
ReplyDeleteAnd while cladistics doesn't identify ancestors in the fossil record (because no-one can, not even you- what is your methodology? You've never explained, despite being asked repeatedly), what it can do is rule out whether a species could be ancestral- and at the level of family it certainly CAN state if a clade is ancestral- that's the whole point of doing cladistic analyses and looking to see if a taxon is paraphyletic or not. Palaeodids do not appear to be paraphyletic in relation to the modern flamingoes. Therefore they are not ancestral. Therefore they are a sister taxon. If palaeodids were recovered as being a paraphyletic group in relation to flamingoes then the articles would be saying that they WERE ancestral (even if we can't say whether or not a particular species within the group was.
A Nonny Mouse posted:
ReplyDelete"Palaeodids do not appear to be paraphyletic in relation to the modern flamingoes. Therefore they are not ancestral."
HOWEVER:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicopteriformes
"An extinct family of peculiar "swimming flamingos", the Palaelodidae, are believed to be related to, or to be THE ANCESTORS OF, the modern flamingos. This is sometimes rejected, since the fossil Elornis is known to be from some time before any palaelodid flamingos have been recorded."
A Nonny Mouse, if you have evidence contrary to the wiki entry, please give us the reference and copy and paste what you think is the relevant material.
If they are ancestral to modern flamingoes then the group is paraphyletic, and contains the ancestor of modern flamingoes (even if it is impossible to tell which species it was- if we have even found that species). If they are not ancestral then the group is not paraphyletic, but is just the sister group to flamingoes. It therefore does not contain any species that is ancestral to modern flamingoes.
ReplyDeleteNo extra information is being presented. I am merely trying (yet again) to explain what you have quoted, because you still don't understand cladistics.
Now, kindly answer my questions about how you can link Pterodaustro to flamingoes, and what your evidence is for the multiple independent origins of "birds".
"If they are ancestral to modern flamingoes then the group is paraphyletic, and contains the ancestor of modern flamingoes (even if it is impossible to tell which species it was- if we have even found that species)."
ReplyDeleteThat is a good way of putting it. And here is what the quote said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicopteriformes
"An extinct family of peculiar "swimming flamingos", the Palaelodidae, are believed to be related to, or to be THE ANCESTORS OF, the modern flamingos. This is sometimes rejected, since the fossil Elornis is known to be from some time before any palaelodid flamingos have been recorded."
I have noticed a certain pattern in the comments I receive. I quote references that specifically support what I am proposing. Even so, the commenter disputes it.
ReplyDeleteWe see that the objection is not really based on evidence, but on some unspoken desire simply to object. As if it is essential to absurdly object to even accepted ideas, simply because I quote them. This is not worth arguing about but something to take note of.
It reduces the credibility of the objections.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamingo
ReplyDeleteFlamingos filter-feed on brine shrimp and blue-green algae. Their beaks are specially adapted to separate mud and silt from the food they eat, and are uniquely used upside-down. The filtering of food items is assisted by hairy structures called lamellae which line the mandibles, and the large rough-surfaced tongue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterodaustro
Pterodaustro probably waded in shallow water like flamingos, straining food with its tooth comb, a method called "filter feeding".
http://www.senckenberg.de/files/content/forschung/abteilung/terrzool/ornithologie/gottingen.pdf
ReplyDelete"This taxon, the †Palaelodidae, is
known since more than 150 years from the Paleogene and Neogene of Europe and has an abundant fossil record (e.g., Cheneval 1983).
Its assignment to the Phoenicopteriformes has never been doubted and, among other features, is supported by a very deep lower jaw suggesting the existence of a "primitive filter-feeding apparatus" (Cheneval & Escuillié 1992: 209)"
Pterodaustro (filter feeder)-->
ReplyDeletePalaelodidae (filter feeder)-->
Flamingo (filter feeder)
A possible connection to Presbyornithidae:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyornithids
Presbyornithidae were a family of waterbirds with an apparently global distribution that lived until the Earliest Oligocene, but are now extinct. Initially, they were believed to present a mix of characters shown by waterbirds, shorebirds and flamingos and were used to argue for an evolutionary relationship between these groups (Feduccia 1976), but they are now generally accepted to be "wading ducks", the sister taxon of the Anatidae, and thus essentially modern waterbirds. They were generally long-legged, long-necked birds, standing around one meter high, with the body of a duck, feet similar to a wader but webbed, and a flat duck-like bill adapted for filter feeding. Apparently, at least some species were very social birds that lived in large flocks and nested in colonies.
As the "wading duck" moniker implies, they were waterfowl whose elongated legs enabled them to live a lifestyle similar to the "proto-flamingos" (e.g., Palaelodus) - which were not really ancestors of the modern flamingos, but a group that evolved in parallel with them and in fact seems to have taken over part of the presbyornithid's ecological niche after the latter became extinct. Thus, while probably somewhat capable of swimming, they would have preferred to strain the shallow waters of their habitat for food and were also able to snatch up insects and small crustaceans on dry land, just like some species of modern ducks, e.g., the Laysan Duck, hunt for brine flies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presbyornithidae
ReplyDeletePresbyornithids
Temporal range: Late Cretaceous? - Oligocene
Possible enhanced version:
Pterosaur (Ctenochasmatidae) Pterodaustro
--> Primitive bird, Presbyornithidae
--> Primitive bird, Palaelodidae (Phoenicopteriformes)
--> Flamingo (Phoenicopteriformes)